James: I've used about ten kids, but not in a bad way. All
I can say is that I have no fear of the legal system in this
country, as far as I'm concerned, the police's so called child
protection units aren't functioning at all. Good grief, one reads
in the paper every day how little staff members they have, and
the chances of them getting to me is highly unlikely. And
secondly if they do catch me, by the time this case comes to
court, this child won't be in a position to testify anyway. My
previous case was postponed about five times. They took about
three years to conclude it. I have no fear...
Jenny: ...would be sexually abused in prison?
But they do it..
Would that frighten you?
Of course, I'd be terrified of going to jail, look I've
heard terrible stories of what they do to a man like me. And yes,
I don't want to go to jail, but I'd rather commit suicide.
James, you say you're a paedophile and so far you've
managed to escape the law, and basically you feel that the law
is so bad that you'll be free to continue what I would call
molesting children, and what you call loving them. Have you ever
taken yourself off to a psychiatrist or something, or are you
comfortable with where you are?
I don't feel I need help, I'm a fairly successful person,
I've got my own business, I live in a fairly affluent suburb, I
don't have a family of my own which suits me fine, and I don't
er its not that I have a problem. I think the police have the
problem in that they can't force the law, and I think the courts
have a problem because they can't prosecute people. If I rape a
child violently, If I hurt that child, that would be wrong, But
even that, It takes forever to go to court anyway.
Are you a violent paedophile?
No, I've never hurt a child in my life. The things I do to
children they like.
Touching them, making love to them.
And if a child says 'please stop' would you stop?
Yes, of course, immediately. I'll never force myself on a
And how do you find them?
Irresistible, irresistible, I don't know another way to
And what sort of ages attract you?
Ten, eleven years old. If a girl is older than twelve I'd
stay away from her. Ten, eleven year old girls preferably.
And do you find them at schools and places like than?
All over (laughs). We live in a sick society in more than
one sense. Parents don't give a damn about their kids. I pick
them up from shopping centres, or I pick them up from movie
houses, from places, so called places of entertainment. You know
parents drop their kids off there, give them tons of money to
keep themselves busy with, but what the kids need more than
anything is someone to be close to, someone to love, somebody to
listen to, somebody they can talk to, and that's where I come
into the picture, I'm there for them. I love them, I give them
Has no child that you have loved, as you describe it,
reported you to their parents, and the parents come after
No, not as far as I know. And even if it happens, I'm not
really concerned about what happens. The police can't stop me and
the courts can't stop me. It's not functioning properly and until
we get a proper child protection service, I think that's what you
call it in the UK, I'm not really concerned. If we have a new
system, ja well then I'll reconsider my actions. If you can't
understand a paedophile, If you can't understand how he thinks
then you can't judge us. For me its natural to be close to a
child in a sexual and sensual manner. I don't think its wrong,
I don't feel guilty about it.
How does a paedophile think then?
(Inaudible) I find them irresistible in that sense. I like
their bodies, They're young and they're innocent, and they're
easy to get to. I don't have to prove myself to them, all I have
to be is to be there.
Andrew: James, if you care so much about children in the
way that you've outlined, don't you care that you're damaging
them? I mean its pretty well established that children who are
approached and treated in this way are emotionally damaged,
pretty much for life. Is that not a concern for you if you care
so deeply about children?
Yes, and er., It might be, I don't want to hurt anybody,
cause psychological damage I'm sorry about that, but that's a
need I have, er, I can't help it, even if I want to.
Jenny: And yet, and yet you've never felt the need to go
and ask for help from anybody at all, because you don't see the
need, that you're comfortable with yourself where you are?
Yes, at this stage of my life yes.
Would it surprise you if some child's father discovered
what was happening and came along, and in a fit of passion just
wanted to take you out. How would you respond then?
I guess I won't be able to blame him, I wouldn't like that,
I don't know what I'll do. I really don't know. Maybe I'll just
disappear, commit suicide, leave the country, I don't know. I
don't want to go to jail.
James, what is your position on child pornography and
I find child pornography is exiting, and I think if
legislation really changes, we will get the stuff more freely,
Its difficult to come by at this stage. But if the laws change
we'll get the stuff more freely. That's a need I have which I'd
like to fulfil. Someone else might like snuff porn, I can't stand
the stuff. But if the laws are changed and the government makes
it available, why not use it.
When you say you like child pornography, what sort of
ages are the ages that excite you the most, you've said that from
about twelve years on you don't look at girls any more, but how
young do you start looking at them, and what excites you in terms
I recently saw a video where a guy had sex with a two year
old girl. And I found that to be very sensual. I don't know, It
exited me, I wanted to find a girl, find a child to have sex
Andrew: I think we're both sitting here kind of
speechless, James, I need to follow up on the question I asked
earlier, I mean this has just illustrated how absolutely
horrifying it is, and for a two year old child to have that done
to her, that child's chances of being normal for the rest of it's
life are just nil, and yet you acknowledge that, you said you
care about children, but at the same time you are putting your
own needs above those of the children, irrespective of the damage
that's being done, I just can't work that out in my mind. To me
somebody like yourself who at the end of the day, bottom line is
that you don't care about children, you are using them.
For my needs perhaps yes. I do try not to hurt them, but if
they are hurt it's not intentional.
But it is intentional
I don't know what you're sexual orientation is but society
don't judge you if you're gay or homosexual, why should society
judge us, we are paedophile, we enjoy having sex with kids. Well
everything is allowed, abortions are allowed, drugs, everything
is allowed, why not having sex with younger children.
All the things you have mentioned, the thing that
distinguishes them is child abuse.
Why, what's the difference with what I do, I'm fulfilling my
own needs, just as the rest of society.
Jenny: Now I think that there is a significant
difference, lets take the case that you've just cited. You've
cited the case of a homosexual, lets talk about a homosexual. A
homosexual is having sex with a consenting adult. What you are
doing is you are having sex with children who don't know any
better, who may be very frightened. A two year old is in
absolutely no position to turn around to you and have a coherent
discussion about why she doesn't want to have sex with you.
A two year old perhaps, but I'm having sex with eleven year
old girls who took the lead in the sex act.
But do you really think they knew what they were
I certainly got the impression that they knew what they were
doing. The question I'm asking is where did they learn it.
Eleven year olds basically know what is going on but they
don't know what is going on. They are very innocent, they don't
O they certainly enjoyed it. A few of these girls saw
pornography previously. I remember distinctly, one girl's dad had
quite an extensive collection of pornography, and she had free
access to it. If a parent, if a dad is prepared to allow his
child to watch pornography, isn't he to blame, why blame me. He's
opened up the child for, if you want to call it, abuse, for a
possible abusive situation. He should be blamed, society should
be blamed, not us.
I don't think it follows. I think that if a father does
that however regrettable it is, and however sick I personally
find it, I don't think its saying open sesame, that I mean James
I don't know how old you are, but it sounds to me that you are
in your thirties or maybe even your forties.
I'm close to forty
Well you're close to forty, and now we're talking about
an eleven year old girl. I mean you're not dim, you've got you're
own company, I mean you can see that an eleven year old cannot
cope in the same way that a twenty year old would. They cannot
reason, they haven't had sexual experience, even if they have
watched the odd dirty movie.
But then what I'm doing is enhancing their sexual development
to a certain extent. I'm preparing them for what they will
experience in life anyway.
Not you're not, you're destroying there lives.
No, I'm not, I don't think so.
What could be you're possible justification for having
sex with a two year old.
Personally I won't go for a two year old. I got aroused by
watching this guy.
And you said to me that you wanted to go out and find a
two year old.
No, No not two year olds, at the time I like, I respond to
What sort of child do you respond to?
Obviously a child from that specific age group, and obviously
a child that has specific needs, like I said, a child who is
alone, a child who needs somebody to share the events in their
Is there any particular place where you pick up
Ah yes, good grief, every shopping mall in the country, I've
picked up children in Durban, in P.E. in Cape Town. Most of the
kids I've had relationships with I've picked up in Johannesburg.
The movie houses are the best and the safest. I operate freely
and I have free access to a large extent.
You said a minute ago that you would pick up a child you
would see is needy, that basically needs you. What sort of things
are you looking for when you pick up a child. How do you know
that they are needy?
I know, something about the child just tells you that the
child needs somebody, the child needs something and the child
wants to speak to someone. Its difficult to put into words. But
you can pick it up, and after a while you know which child is
lonely and which is not. Not in a group, or a child in a group
who is perhaps keeping to herself, and its a matter of
introducing myself, getting to know her, getting her to trust me,
and the moment she opens up her heart you're home free. Its a
matter of time from then on before we have sex.
How do you get them to trust you?
I'm a likeable person. We had a lady on earlier who spoke
about someone in her family who got convicted for rape, and he's
such a nice man and he could never do it, well we're all nice
men, are nice people, we know how to treat women, We can do it
better than people in education, we can do it certainly better
than parents can.
What do you do once you have made contact with a child you
see as needy. I asked you how you would get them to trust you,
but here we are, we're at the movie house, we're in a mall,
you've isolated this child from a group of friends, and maybe you
offer them popcorn, I don't know what you do, but how does the
game for you progress.
You don't have to offer them popcorn, that's just what the
stupid cops tell kids at nursery schools, don't accept sweets
from strangers. What I'm offering a child is better than sweets,
I'm offering this child companionship, conversation,
communication, and that's what this child wants. And if the child
speaks to me, I can very quickly judge for myself whether I can
take this further. If not, I leave it, I've had a nice time and
I'll look for another child. But if the child responds to me,
opens up towards me, I might not have sex with the child on the
very first night, but I know that she'll be back at the movie
houses in a few days time, and I'll be back then, and next time,
four or five times from now on, instead of going to the movies
with me, we'll just disappear in the toilets, or in the back of
my car. And by the time the movies are out, she's back at the
movie house, and her dad collects her, and nobody's the wiser.
And we'll do this for the next few times. Sometimes they want to
put a stop to it, and sometimes I don't feel comfortable and I
put a stop to it. But we've both had a nice time. And obviously
I do offer them financially, like I said I'm affluent and I can
give them money and gifts. And I do that, some of them don't want
it, others take it.
I want to ask you one final question, James, I have to say
I am pleased you phoned 702, because I think it has enlightened
and horrified virtually everybody who's listening. I want to ask
you whether this conversation has exited you, and whether you
will go on the hunt again this evening.
I'll be out there, I'll be out there looking, I'll be
cruising the streets, I'll be out there at the shopping malls,
movie house and I'll have a kid. Before twelve o'clock tonight
I will have had sex with a ten year old girl, it might be your
c/o Department of Psychology
University of the Witwatersrand